Gen won't start or stop from inside panels

VMS 440 CL in a 2009 CC Magna, Onan 12.5 KW genset. Can start and stop only from the switch on the gen itself. The tanks read OK except the previous owner obviously didn't know how to properly take care of a black tank, it reads ¼ full with just a couple gallons in it.
Has the original 3000W PS inverter. Right now it's in the shop with a dropped valve in #6, second time in 25,000 miles.
Will read more of the info in the other posts to see if that gives me a clue.

No GenStart...from VMS-440

Hello Deen

I'm sorry this is giving you any grief whatsoever--especially given your engines propensity for pitching out valves. That's a drag!

When Mark comes in tomorrow I'll get some background on your post; see where he might go with this. He knows the '440 real well and may have some shortcuts. Stay tuned....

cheers

ISX 650 valves

Estimate is $28,800+. We only drove it 3,000 miles since buying it on Feb 19th Love the rig, not really happy with Cummins right now. It did the same thing at 19,032 miles in 2010, new turbo installed. About 1,000 miles later a new turbo again, and now this 25,000 miles later. Cummins NW has seen four of this, 2 Class 8 trucks and now 2 MH's. Cummins has new heads and valves so it's a well known problem. Hoping that they will pick up 50% or more of the cost.
So, you seem to be aware of the ISX troubles, have you heard much about it before?

ISX troubles

If I sound knowlegeable its a fluke!

Nah, I read online blogs and net chatter. Most of which is not very measurable. I deal with facts, information and the details that keep us relevant--that's how we roll here. The stories I've heard of the ISX are much like your own. Of the ones that have no problems...they love 'em. All but the fuel use that is :-/ Many lemons however--though I can't say I've heard of a specific flaw or defect as a root-cause.

That's what I'd want to know; the origin of the problem. Is there a lemon law for engines as there are with autos?

cheers

Hello Deen

Hello Deen

After speaking with Mark, it seems the best place to start is ensure the gen-slide interlock system is as we think it is. That is, drawer closed, switch closed, relay activated.

As you know, there's a 'pin' switch on the generator slide. If it is not closing completely, is broken _or_ the relay it controls has failed then no gen-start can be done remotely.

Once that's satisfied and tests good, then on to the connector at the Onan itself. They can work loose over time an produce the same result.

Given its in the shop, a fella with a meter could paw through this without much trouble.

cheers

VMS

MH is still at Cummins NW, engine repair bill stands at $31,000 now with Cummins picking up $9,700 of it at present. Had to close out my IRA to pay it. Drove it less than 2,600 miles since purchase.
Now, about the gen start and VMS:
Will need the rig back to check the switch, so maybe by this Friday the 17th.
Another question: should the pushbuttons on the right side be illuminated at night? If so I guess I need to find the fuses and check them too.
What does it cost to reprogram the unit as I have the ISX 650 and the programming only shows the 600 which is not a real problem BUT I'm thinking about replacing the 4 8D AGMs with 4 8D AGM's from Lifeline and they take different charge ratings.

re: VMS and ISX-650

Hello Deen

It appears your software rev is an older one and may need to be updated. If you didn't see the engine available, ie. the ISX-650, then this is in fact the case.

This can be done at a dealer who supports Silverleaf or done here at the factory. This update will add the 650HP option--as well as others.

I suspect you have software 41RV04 5/16/12.
The 41RV07 7/31/12 - 2013 added Cummins engine support and
42RV07 8/11/14 is the latest rev.--which is a departure from the early version you have. The changes since are:
Better video processing, PressurePro and an additional Climate Control screen. Other changes are not as obvious--mostly internal housekeeping.

Keep us posted on the slider switch in the mean time.

Its hard to hear such woes about an engine that seems like it should still be chugging along. Its unfortunate that this is *not* an uncommon story for Cummins these days. Hang in there.

Cheers

Art Renda
Documentation Central,
Silverleaf Electronics
(888) 741-0259

The slider switch checks out

fine using a VOM. Still not able to start the gen from inside. Next idea?

Is anyone going to be available to do a software update at the Coos Bay FMCA rally? I know someone is doing a forum or two there.

Slider swithc checks out OK

Checked it with my VOM and it's working fine. Now on to the relays and connections I guess.
Going to take it into Pacific Power tomorrow to replace the rear shocks. Somehow Cummins bent one and it broke in half now and the other is leaking. They blame the tow company but it was fine when dropped off at the shop.
OK, what relays am I looking for? I looked at the schematics I got with the rig and don't find any for the VMS although I could have missed it too. I'm used to reading highway construction plans not electrical stuff!

Not sure what software is loaded, I do know all it shows is the ISX 600 and nothing for the PressurePro although I have the Smartire system.

Deen

Is anyone

going to be available at the Coos Bay FMCA rally to troubleshoot the system and maybe do a software upgrade? I might just wait till then to do anything more.

re: Coos Bay FMCA

Yes

Hello Deen

Dale will be there--snag him early with a planner *in your hand* so-as to set a time. He'll be flyin busy and with that schedule, he'll get you inked and looked at. It'll likely be after trade-show hours, towards the evening.

As for what else to check, its a matter of chasing down the loose ends. Knowing the switch is good is a bonus. Knowing that it 'changes state' (closes) when the drawer is in/ door closed is yet another star.

That signal ends up at the TM-102, pin 5 of the OUTPUT connector but goes through a 'safety' relay, first. Once found, your ohms-setting on that volt meter should relate the same state-change as at the switch.

I've emailed you a diagram specifically applies to the Country Coach setup--though intended for new builds. Its still about the same.

We can eliminate the TM-102 as a problem. There are cases where 'amnesia' affect some functions. A simple q & A can eliminate or implicate this:
Does the Generator 'stop' when told to (from Inside?)

If it does, the TM-102 is acting as it should.

If not, it'll need to be returned for a firmware re-do. A reprogramming, in this case, will fix that problem and, as an aside, give you the latest, updated copy. I believe Dale will have the tools there in Coos Bay to do that reprogramming.

So, next, does it 'turn off' from the inside?

Art
//

Will

have to check that. As I remember from the little time we had with it the gen will NOT shut down from inside but need to check it for sure.

Tried to edit the last entry and I can't

Should say will NOT shut down from inside

re: will NOT shut down from inside

Hello Deen

Bingo.

If it can't shut it down from the inside, then the TM102 has in all likelihood lost some of its memory. Not expected but, given the sheer volume of these on the road, things like this have happened.

This will need a firmware update. We'll overwrite the corrupted/ missing instruction and configure it (once again) for your coach's specific needs. Then, it will also be tested for function specifically relating to the gen-start request.

Give a call when convenient; we'll work-up an RMA and begin the process.

cheers

Art
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Talked with Dale at the FMCA rally

He did some checking and it seems the Intellitec isn't passing the signal. He suggested rewiring and rerouting around the Intellitec system although that would lose the one start/stop station in the bedroom. Not a big loss as far as I'm concerned.
Didn't get the update done either. What do I need to do to get it done now? May have to wait till the camping season ends. But we'll have to see what the wife's cancer treatment entails too.

Another question is: do the control buttons have any backlight? The unit is dark at night and I don't like "fishing" for a button and getting the wrong one!

re: Control buttons

Hello Deen

The buttons are not backlit. I've seen a goose-neck LED flashlight from 'Dollar Tree' used though.

As for continuing service on the coach ie. the Intellitec issue, you'll need to call so we can get up to speed on where you and Dale were at on that. He's on the road so often...and not usually on the forum...

cheers

Art
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Sorry, haven't been here for a while

Wife has liver cancer so lots of time getting her medical stuff taken care of!
Since I'm still working it's kind of hard to get down that way but I may need to take the rig to Junction City for some other work so could swing by or take the VMS out and get it to you.
Will try to call tomorrow (Wed) and see where we are going.

re: dropping in

Hello Deen

Please do stop in anytime you're in the area. We've got a coach in for some work later this morning yet I'm confident we can work you in.

cheers

Art
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To close this out

Wife got a liver transplant July 4th and died August 21st, 2016.
Auto gen start is working fine now, Premier RV in Junction City found a broken wire in the loom and bypassed it.
Still need to get down there and get the update done though.

Drop by when you can

Hello Deen

Drop by when you can--and bring in your coffee cup and I'll brew you one. No words I can put down in this forum are worthy when it comes to losing your co-pilot. But, I can make good coffee and am here for when you drop in. Please, do.

Art
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Thanks Art

What is a good day to bring just the 400 CL in? Would like to just drive down with the car and bring the unit itself or should I call and make an appointment?

Drop in, anytime for a SW update.

Hello Deen
You can drop in, anytime, for the SW update. No appt is necessary. There's parking around back in case the front lot is full.

cheers

Art
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